Another Atheist Wants the Constitution Violated

A complaint was lodged by atheist Dan L. Smith that a prayer that concludes with “in Jesus name” or the use of “Christ” is unconstitutional.

“Smith has emailed council members for years, saying that people of other faiths or no faith shouldn’t have to endure a Christian prayer at a government meeting.”

Because of a threat of a legal suit by Smith, the religious invocations at Longview City Council meetings have been suspended. I offer a way (see below) to beat people like Smith at their own game by using the Constitution. The best defense is a good offense.

The First Amendment does not apply to city council meetings since it only restricts “Congress” from making any law “respecting an establishment of religion or prohibiting the free exercise thereof. . .” One of the first orders of business of the first Congress was to appoint chaplains. Bishop Samuel Provost and Reverend William Linn became paid chaplains of the Senate and House. Since then, both the Senate and the House have continued regularly to open their sessions with prayer. So how is it constitutional to have chaplains where prayers are offered for the House and Senate and not for a city council meeting?

Judge James Harvie Wilkinson III in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals argued that “legislative invocations offered in Jesus’ name are inherently ‘sectarian’ and thus should be censored lest they make some attendees feel ‘uncomfortable, unwelcome and unwilling to participate in … public affairs.’” But are they unconstitutional? If history is any guide, they are not.

The above arguments are lost on today’s courts and the people who write news stories on this topic. But there’s a way to fight this battle without having to resort to a long drawn out and expensive court fight. The simple solution is for any Christian who is called on to open a meeting with prayer to end it with these simple words:

“We make this prayer in the Year of our Lord Jesus Christ 2013.”

If people object, pull out a copy of the Constitution and show them that you are only following what the Constitution itself acknowledges. “The Year of our Lord” is part of the Constitution. You can read it just above George Washington’s signature. This is an obvious reference to Jesus because of the use of “Lord” and the dating from the supposed time of Jesus’ birth which is also part of the Constitution: “one thousand, seven hundred and eighty seven.”

This tactic would mute the claim that the United States Government can’t favor Christianity since Jesus is the centerpiece of Christianity, and the Constitution acknowledges this by its recognition of Anno Domini, A.D., “the year of our Lord.” It’s a logical step to reason that if the Constitution makes a reference to Jesus, even if indirectly, then how is it possible that using Jesus’ name at a government meeting, which claims to follow the Constitution, is unconstitutional?

When John Hancock was Governor of the Commonwealth of Massachusetts, he issued “A Proclamation for a Day of Public Thanksgiving” in 1791 with no protestation from the courts:

“In consideration of the many undeserved Blessings conferred upon us by GOD, the Father of all Mercies; it becomes us not only in our private and usual devotion, to express our obligations to Him, as well as our dependence upon Him; but also specially to set a part a Day to be employed for this great and important Purpose. . . . And above all, not only to continue to us the enjoyment of our civil Rights and Liberties; but the great and most important Blessing, the Gospel of Jesus Christ:  . . . . that all may bow to the Scepter of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, and the whole Earth be filled with his Glory.”

Above Hancock’s signature, the following is found: “Given at the Council-Chamber, in Boston, the fifth Day of October, in the Year of our Lord, One Thousand Seven Hundred and Ninety-One, and in the sixteenth Year of the Independence of the United States of America.”

In 1807, Thomas Jefferson signed a federal passport that allowed the ship Hershel to proceed on its Journey to London and dated the letter September 24, 1807 “in the year of our Lord Christ.”

If Jesus is good enough for the Constitution, Thomas Jefferson, John Hancock, and other official United States documents, then I don’t see why it’s not good for the Longview City Council.







Comments

comments

Gary is a graduate of Western Michigan University (1973) and earned his M.Div. at Reformed Theological Seminary in 1979. He is the author of countless essays, news articles, and more than 27 book titles.

Posted in Christianity, Congress, Constitution, First Amendment, Politics, Religion Tagged with: , , , , , , ,
  • TheWatchman

    It doesn’t matter to Jesus whether His name is deemed sectarian. Christians should simply continue invoking Jesus’ name, let this Atheist sue, and continue using it anyway. Perhaps when enough Christians become religious and political prisoners, the American churches will wake up, don the whole armor of God and fight this evil government and court system we have.

  • Keenan Lee

    We shouldn’t have to dance around for them. Just say the prayer and acknowledge our Saviour.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Ruth-Walker/528948232 Ruth Walker

    The Fourth Amendment makes the bill of rights apply to the states as well as the federal government. In Matthew 6, the bible says that Jesus taught not to flaunt religion. Anyway when I was a child I was taught that silent prayers worked as well a spoken. Has God become hard of hearing in his old age?

    Anyone interested in actually following the Golden Rule would not want the government to seem to endorse any religion, as they certainly wouldn’t want another’s religion pushed on them.

    The mistruths about our country’s history are hurting us. The idea of separation of church and state was first expressed by religious folk:

    “When they [the Church] have opened a gap in the hedge or wall of separation
    between the garden of the church and the wilderness of the world, God hath ever
    broke down the wall itself, removed the Candlestick, etc., and made His Garden a
    wilderness as it is this day. And that therefore if He will ever please to
    restore His garden and Paradise again, it must of necessity be walled in
    peculiarly unto Himself from the world, and all that be saved out of the world
    are to be transplanted out of the wilderness of the World.” Roger Williams in 1644

    http://www.brucegourley.com/baptists/quotesscs.htm

    James Madison, credited as author of the constitution was clear as well:
    http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/qmadison.htm

  • Phil

    It is very refreshing that an atheist fears the name of Jesus Christ

  • tncdel

    I’m not into mysticism, so all religion is utter nonsense to me. But I have no problem with those that want to include a prayer. My only beef is with the pseudo-religion Islam, which is in actuality organized crime failing to meet constitutional criteria of being defined as a religion for 1st Amendment purposes.

    Here is an OBJECTIVE defense of Christianity versus Islam from someone not into religion at all:

    To sum things up, the difference between Islam and every other major religion is that Islam is THE ONLY ONE that commands ALL followers to kill, oppress and annihilate all who refuse to believe as they do.

    THAT’s what Mohammed commanded his followers to do. Whereas, Jesus commanded all his followers to “Love thy neighbor” and to “Turn the other cheek.”

    It is immaterial that those claiming to be either Muslims or Christians don’t follow the commands of their respective claimed religions. For one who does not FOLLOW cannot be a true FOLLOWER.

    When someone claiming to be a Christian kills in the name of Jesus, he or she does so ON THEIR OWN. Not because their religion commanded them. Same thing for those who command others to do what is contrary to the commands of Jesus.

    So when you or others make claims that Christians killed X number of people, I have to say you are wrong about that.

    But when it comes to Islam, a true Muslim will obey Sharia Law and the Quran’s commands. So the number killed by Muslims in the name of “Allah” are indeed attributable to Islam, not their own idea.

    Please see:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KFS5sl_La_A

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ib9rofXQl6w

    • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

      I really like your comment I think it is very sensible and shows good judgement! what sense does it make to attack a faith that defends and elevates life, when it is mis-application and perversion by man that gives it a bad reputation !

  • franko35758

    hey atheist, I have trouble believing also. fact is, we have been doing this for over two hundred years,
    we have precedence over you!!!~
    as we discovered in a fox hole, no atheist in a fox hole.
    get on with a life and let people believe the way they want to. we veterans gave you the right to do just that.
    I SERVED/DID YOU? old sarge,’nam vet,’68,’70
    lrpp/abn

    • http://www.kennethballard.com Kenneth

      No atheists in foxholes? Ever heard of Pat Tillman?

      And plenty of atheists currently serve in the United States Armed Forces and the various National Guards.

      • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

        Kenneth people in foxholes are dying for banksters , it doesn’t matter who is in the foxhole

    • Marty

      We have all heard such statements as “Men need faith for consolation in their sorrow”, or “Only faith can help you in your hour of need”, or “There are no atheists in foxholes.” And not many people have thought about inquiring whether the gentlemen who offer you protection in such emergencies were the same ones who created the sorrow, the need, and the foxhole. Of all the arguments advocating faith in God, this last, the one pertaining to foxholes, is perhaps the most disgraceful. That argument implies that terror is the normal metaphysical condition of man’s existence, and that he should choose his philosophical convictions accordingly, that he should prepare himself not for the achievement of happiness, but for the position of being helplessly delivered to destruction—that the symbol of his existence is not a skyscraper or a rocket to the moon, but a shell-torn battlefield—and that he should be motivated not by any love for values, not by any desire to achieve them, but by fear of destruction and by the desire to escape it. That statement, “there are no atheists in foxholes”, is not so much an advocacy of God’s existence as it is a protest against war. And who are the warmongers amongst us today, eh? We all know the answer to THAT question, don’t we?

      • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

        And everything you said der Marty is advocation for balance in life . extremist views to far in any direction pull you away from balanced and healthy! Who lays down their weaponry of destruction first ? The aggressors and oppressors or the defenders and victims ? The selfish aspirations of man will always rise up! Why, because that is his human non/spiritual nature. how are you going to take that out of the inside of him Marty ? You’re, most certainly right those who are behind the madness are who cause it and instigate it ,finance it and reap all profits from it , and it is how they build nations and destroy them and pit them against each other! so you have to eliminate them who are behind it first! How are you going to eliminate the cult of usury ? Who posesses the most Knowledge and power ?
        They do! …..so..? How ,?……they aren’t going to cooperate by or with your sense of fairness they will just eliminate you ! You get in the way of or threaten their USURY and you will be history !
        So……your only hope is to stop participating in their USURY! completely! Burn or convert all the fiat, let the petro$ die, do not accept any other fiat!, stop and repeal regulation/damnnation,
        Corporate collectivism, and eliminate all selfish aspiration! I think your desires are admirable but , HOW ? There is a snake eye in the top of the pyramid! What are you going to do to get it out of there?……use a stick ,cut the whole of the head off ? What Knowledge are you going to apply ? YOU ARE GOING TO HAVE TO IMPLODE THE PYRAMID SOMEHOW !
        You going to use your brain or your heart or both ? Another in a long line of things , I would appreciate you explaining to me from the mountain of Knowledge , you going to bury the Pyramid in a Mountain of granite knowledge or what,because sand won’t work…….what is your plan of action ? is your answer inside or outside or both ? new energy could be an element, grain acohol spirits powers an automibile the same as petro$ ,but you see what Rockefeller and the snake eye did to farmers they criminalized them as stupid backward ignorant Hillbillies and convinced the public and my great grandmother who ran around crashing bars with carrie nation that it was a moral thing! Your knowledge is a double edged sword and there’s is sharper! It is thought that the Egyptians could produce electricity out of thin air ! and water ! How you going to stop them from raping the earth and nations !
        My ears are open, when will they allow you to implement things such as Tesla coils ?
        You really think they are going to let go of your chains ? You really think they are going to stop cracking the whip ? I know the reasons behind the wars , so we are not all that opposed to each other as you may think. I’m just asking HOW, how you going to implode the pyramid in a way that is not going to mean Armageddon/hell destruction of all things ? You invoke Churchhill again !
        How are you going to convince them to surrender ownership of their SLAVES ?
        I WANT THE ANSWERS SAME AS YOU! SO LET’S DO THIS THING!

      • franko35758

        the dam muslims!!!!
        old sarge,’nam vet

  • nickRay

    Gary Gary Gary! Stick to rote memorizing the musings of bronze age goatherders in the Middle East! The US constitution is WAY too complicated for you. The 14th Amendment and decades of case law by left and right-leaning Supreme courts is what binds the constitution to state and local governments, as anybody with even a passing familiarity with the constitution would know. If that weren’t enough, most state constitutions also incorporate the Bill of Rights. If you had the sense God gave turnips you’d be thanking the Lord for Dan Smith because, unlike you, he is defending the constitution and the right of all believers – Christians, Jews, Musliims, Buddhists, you name it – to worship free from government interference. You Tea Partiers would wildly embrace him if you had any actual principles. But you don’t. Y’all are just PO’ed that you can’t use the power of the state to impose your religion on others the way you used to. But that’s a good thing.

  • Major Summerhill

    What year is it for atheists?

  • George Wentzel

    What I would give to be present on his judgement day.

  • http://www.facebook.com/winona.wacker.1 Winona Wacker

    Interesting. I had never thought of that. Anyway, it is puzzling to me the atheists are all of a sudden jumping into the spotlight after a couple of centuries of being allowed to believe as they wished, with no arguments from either side. Now, they’re making a lot of noise which leads me to believe they are like small children who are afraid of the dark, they know there is really nothing to be afraid of, but, they are afraid just the same.
    The question I have is just what are the atheists afraid of?
    Truth?

    • http://www.kennethballard.com Kenneth

      … a couple centuries of being allowed to believe as they wished, with no arguments from either side

      You’re joking right? This country has been controlled by Christians since the outset. Look at the State constitutions and the various discriminatory provisions they’ve had — most of which weren’t overturned until recent decades.

      I have no doubt there have been atheists since the outset. Atheism is certainly not new. But were they truly free to believe whatever they wanted? Only so long as they kept their mouths shut about what they believed and submitted to the will of the Christian majority and didn’t say anything in response to whatever was preached from the pulpits.

      Even today atheists aren’t entirely free to believe what they want, or at least to be truthful about what they believe. You either go with the Christian majority and willingly submit to the will of the church, or you are cast out of society, shunned by family and friends, losing careers and entirely livelihoods in the process. Atheists still face a lot of risk in just trying to be truthful about who we are. In the words of one atheist, it is tantamount to “social suicide”.

      It is not us who is afraid of truth. The Christian majority doesn’t want to acknowledge that atheists and atheism exists, so they come up with all kinds of things to say about us, to marginalize us, demonize and ostracize us, and some of the things being said are downright disgusting, unwarranted and without merit. It sounds more like the Christian majority is afraid of us.

      • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

        OK, well, I would like to say to you that i regret that your experience has been like that and that i do believe that if more christians would practice spiritualism instead of judgementalism and the local church social club it would be a better place for all, i think the problem is that most practice religion and going to church more than they do the word, in reality when they forget what the word says and do not assimmilate altruism and benevolance then they give all a bad reputation, and I am not talking about some obsurd form of spiritualism I am talking about spiritual truths and concepts about how to interact with others properly like forgive us of our trespasses as we forgive others and love thy neighbor regardless of what they are, and keeping commandments,christianity without sincerity is more judgemental than helpful ,promotion should be attraction to kind spirits not a holy crusade against everyone else who disagrees with them , but right now the situation you describe has been reversed by the present government, and christianity is fighting for everyones rights in a lot of ways
        so it is a double edged sword…….

        • http://www.kennethballard.com Kenneth

          In some ways it always has been a double-edged sword. You see, the fight that atheists are putting up isn’t just about atheism. This is something that most Christians cannot seem to realize because they’re too focused on putting up the “We’re being attacked” front.

          By fighting for our own religious rights and fighting to make government and its public institutions (including schools) religiously-neutral, we are fighting for everyone’s religious rights. Any attempt to take religious rights away from anyone else simultaneously takes them away from us.

          Everyone has a right to believe whatever they want. No one has a right to say they must believe as they do, and no one has a right to say to another person the equivalent of “believe or else”. This includes the government.

          Now no government within the United States is attempting to use the force of law to proselytize. But that is only because atheists and other non-believers have succeeded in putting that to an end and continually going after the governments and government agencies attempting to do this or something similar. Our legal fights have not been with Christians themselves, but only with the governments Christians use to force, by law or action, their beliefs upon everyone else.

          To borrow from Rosa Luxemburg, religious freedom only for those who follow Christianity is not religious freedom. And to truly have religious freedom, the government cannot be making any religious expression.

          I’m thankful that I do have Christians in my life, including my parents, who, though they do not like that I’m an atheist, have not turned me away simply because I am an atheist. Unfortunately too many atheists cannot say the same.

        • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

          I understand your points , what You may see is a lot of the christians feel like the government has been usurped by and is loyal to muslim and islam now and the problem is they have traditionally been enemies with christians. and this present potus supports the muslim brotherhood from what is being written anyhow, so i don’t think that the governmental because it is run by people and people have belief systems that they won’t ever be able to be neutral . according to photographs appearing on some web sites ,Obama wears a ring that says no God but Allah on it in Arabic , that is not very neutral if you ask me….I am of christian belief but feel that people shouldn’t have their rights violated for what they believe , but then again you have to be careful who is defending your country also or you might wind up slave to your enemies then everyone who is not with them is under persecution.

        • http://www.kennethballard.com Kenneth

          I am of christian belief but feel that people shouldn’t have their rights violated for what they believe…

          A lot of Christians I’ve encountered justify the persecution of non-believers by saying that since rights are granted by God that atheists have given up their rights by either not believing at all or losing their belief.

          I’m pleased to see you seem to think differently.

          …but then again you have to be careful who is defending your country also or you might wind up slave to your enemies…

          And this notion isn’t really applicable to religion or religious beliefs, but is generally applicable regardless of the the “enemies” to which you’re referring.

          so i don’t think that the governmental because it is run by people and people have belief systems that they won’t ever be able to be neutral

          I have to disagree. The conversation we are currently having demonstrates the contrary of what you have said.

          Certainly governments are run by people, guided and biased by their own beliefs, religious and otherwise, and self interests. But it comes down to where people are willing to draw a line, and whether those in power are willing to honor that line once it is drawn.

          For the Federal government, the line was drawn with the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And that line encompassed the States with the Fourteenth Amendment. Now all we need is for that line to be honored.

          But honoring the line requires that those who are elected and appointed into the government to recognize where their beliefs — political, religious or what have you — cross the line that was drawn and to pull back when that has been recognized and demonstrated.

          Obviously this applies much further than religious freedom and the First Amendment as applied to the States and municipalities through the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.

        • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

          I edited or added one of my previous responses to you I guess I did this application i use is confusing it relates to the profiling contained in government documents as of 03 2009 DHS i will check the web site page to see what showed and didnt.

        • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

          I have never trusted the government to do whats right ,I have seen to much of the other direction , they try to tell everyone how to live why would they care what any of us believe ? What do you say when the subject of the declaration of independence comes up and God given rights ,endowment ,creator,natural laws ?
          I would never believe or think you had given up your rights because you don’t believe in God or even that someone who remained neutral had. It says (ALL) men are created equal not just those that believe in him,SO I would say whether you believe in him you are priveledged under Gods authority to claim your rights as prescribed regardless of belief whether you believe or not to me isnt really the question because you are ENDOWED WITH UNALIENABLE RIGHT TO INVOKE THAT AUTHORITY ANYHOW.A tool is a tool the use of it shouldn’t be abused by anyone to gain priveledge over others but it is a defensive tool that can be invoked against tyrants. You can use it to invoke authority against christians abusing rights and assert your priveledge to believe as you wish , the authority exists to invoke priveledge and even the God of my understanding gives you the freedom to believe in him or NOT.

        • http://www.kennethballard.com Kenneth

          I have never trusted the government to do whats right ,I have seen to much of the other direction , they try to tell everyone how to live why would they care what any of us believe ?

          Obviously those in power are most friendly to those who believe the same as them — politically, religiously, etc. As such your distrust is warranted. I have similar distrust of government, especially when those who are working within it are constantly using their religion as justification for whatever they want to accomplish, be it a prayer at the start of a meeting or legislation that seeks to curtail or deny freedoms.

          What do you say when the subject of the declaration of independence comes up and God given rights ,endowment ,creator,natural laws ?

          Such conversations tend to go nowhere, so I avoid them where possible. As it is my assertion, and the assertion of all atheists, that the God of the Bible does not exist, among the other many gods that have been devised by man, I consider it nonsensical to discuss the concept of rights as being endowed by some “creator”.

          Further, declaring your rights to be “God-given” or “endowed by our creator” requires acknowledging the possibility that said creator could also, at any time and for any reason or none, declare your rights to be null and void.

          A person who is unwilling to acknowledge such a possibility is not someone with whom I could expect to have a reasonable conversation about the concept of rights. Most people I have encountered who have attempted to assert that our rights are “God-given” refuse to acknowledge the above-mentioned possibility.

          “But He wouldn’t do that!” they would typically assert.

          “How can you know?” I would challenge.

          “Because I know God that well,” is the typical response I’d get practically every time.

          As such I just avoid such conversations in general as I don’t see them as going anywhere. And any person who refuses to acknowledge the above-mentioned possibility from the outset of any conversation about rights is someone from whom I just walk away. Someone asserting that they “know” God so well that they know what he will and will not do is someone with whom rational conversation I feel is impossible.

          If you’re interested in my point of view on rights, I’ve already written a couple articles about it on my blog here.

        • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

          I am not your typical christian believer I came to God on a completely different path than chuch ,or religion, it doesnt mean i do not have knowledge of scrypture to some extent , but you couldn’t call me a bible thumper, I came to my belief by practising simplistic spiritual principles one of them is H. O. W., which is honesty, openmindedness, and willingness, as a result , I don’t really judge others that much or try to beat them up with scripture, I am human and have shortcomings just like anyone, but i believe also spirit,my parents didn’t go to church and my father never said that he believed in God , he never said he didn’t either , I think he was a closet Atheist, strange thing they just left it up to my own choice what I did ( freedom of religion ) but i traveled a dark path that nearly got me killed several times, I decided to change my life after hitting a bottom with it .
          so it isn’t an issue for me to acknowledge that i think it is fool hearted to think that if God does exist he would or wouldn’t do something or could or couldn’t , after all if he does exist then he could probably do whatever he wanted to and I believe scripture provides examples of such but that is probably here nor there at this point…….
          as a simplistic spiritualist i tend to focus just on what is true for me and I believe certain spiritual wisdoms have been revealed to me about myself and life , but I just found out from another Atheist that by definition I am supposed to be a Mystic, I thought I was a simplistic spiritualist , its my own personal experience that has changed me not religion, but the other fellow told me I just had a psychosomatic episode, I may be prone to psychic episodes because I have predicted future events through dreams, my mother did this also, sounds nutty i know but it is completely against my principals to lie, my focus is on truth of myself ……to thine own self be true . And i believe, if you can’t be truthful with yourself you can’t be with others……..I understand what your saying the whole God thing is supposed to be a personal /individual relationship ……what is true for some may not be for others so don’t go assuming anything, people claim to know him then go around stabbing each other in the back! and lying on them Hypocrits! I have seen and had christians in name only cheat me for no reason.
          I agree religion should not be a reason to accomplish a government agenda or an agenda, I probably agree with your view on rights because I am a libertarian and believe government and religions should leave people alone and let them decided what they want for themselves-FREEDOM- but if people express interest or i am discussing with them my own experience i just try to be honest about myself to aide in understanding.
          you seem like a reasonable enough person to me, I think their is two sides to every story and some sides or views are extreme I tray to stay balanced ,but i get one wheel in the ditch every once in awhile dependent on how something strikes me or effects me.
          Is there anything in my post below yours below this one that you would venture comment on ? I don’t think we can justify persecuting anyone if this a free country but as far as accommodating every special interest my views are somewhat Ronald Reagan on that. 10-1964 “a time for choosing” and he quotes Winston churchhill about when great forces are on the move in the world………..kind of describes my religious philosophy towards myself.

        • Marty

          Have you signed the non-aggression pledge yet?

        • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

          ok, Marty ,I haven’t had all my coffee yet, but i’ll byte,lol, in what context,as in control of an army or weaponry or because I said my views are libertarian in regard to governments and religions or because i mentioned Reagan and Churchhill, the subject of this post must be important to you . I think you and any other A-theist are just entitled to your beliefs or rights as anyone else,is that non-aggressive enough for you ? there’s actually several subjects within the content. I guess I should assume it was my use of Reaganesque and Churchhill reference and you jest that my views are old fashion .is that your implication ? If so, a lot of old fashion things weren’t all that bad or not bad in my opinion but, being from an oppisite spectrum of view you would most likely disagree. Ron Paul was old fashioned and I like both him and his son but I am sure you would tell me he is racists or something or just another crazy uncle, lol he predicted things which have come true also, so I guess he was a mystic like you say I am.
          I don’t intend to aggress anything but , there are many things I would defend even your right to believe as you do.

        • Marty

          Bravo!

        • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

          Translated …….” way to go Kenneth your my God ” if you don’t stop trolling Marty I am going to go find a scriptural Bully and sick them on you ! LOL, that has to be your worst nightmare.

    • Marty

      Irrationality, my dear Winona, although I would not exactly call it “fear”. Why, indeed, should anyone ever have anything to fear? Kenneth, posting below (or above, as the case may be), has some fine points to make.

      • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

        And i guess you would irrationaly dissrespect John Adams also Marty since you have so much resentment against mysticists or mystics however you would prefer it, and look to Kenneth to make your points and Make his ideology your God then here insult and dissrespect John Adams words and for being a mystic………

        When they painted the mural of George Washington being lifted into saintly hood on the capitol bldg ceiling were they trying to torture any atheists and prevent them from coming there ? and when John Adams told an inquirer that we had been given a moral Republic and that it was wholly insufficient for any other society…..

        “I am surprised at the suddenness as well as the greatness of this revolution… It is the will of Heaven that the two countries should be sundered forever. It may be the will of Heaven that America shall suffer calamities still more wasting, and distresses yet more dreadful. If this is to be the case it will have this good effect at least. It will inspire us with many virtues which we have not, and correct many errors, follies, and vices which threaten to disturb, dishonor, and destroy us. The furnace of affliction produces refinement in states as well as individuals. And the new Governments we are assuming in every part will require a purification from our vices, and an augmentation of our virtues, or they will be no blessings. The people will have unbounded power, and the people are extremely addicted to corruption and venality, as well as the great. But I must submit all my hopes and fears to an overruling Providence, in which, unfashionable as the faith may be, I firmly believe.”
        So take your medicine. ( brewski’s )
        It’s time a-theists stop thinking they are superior in knowledge and wisdom, to the framers and show some respect for them and the blessings they bestowed upon us which they believed came from the heavens! have you no respect for those who gave you the right not to believe also?
        No you don’t, and i bet you just hate with a passion that mystics gave you your right not to believe! dissrespecting them is not going to remove the pyramid of power that enslaves you get a clue!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Nelson-Lentz/1365069440 Nelson Lentz

    The part of the 1st Amendment regarding religion should be repealed for two reasons:

    1.) The part that grants “free excercise thereof” to all religions, including of course to Islam, shoots itself in the foot. Since Islam is dedicated to eradicating all other political systems and religions, granting Islam its free excercise will eventually result in all other religions losing theirs.

    2.) The part of the 1st Amendment regarding religion was put in there out of respect for religion. That’s respect for systems of beliefs that treat lies as truths, myths as reality, and use imaginary rewards (Heaven) and imaginary punishments (Hell) to control and enslave people. The bottom line; religion deserves no respect and all religions should be left in our distant past with the ignorance that spawned them.
    “The way to see with faith is to close the eye of reason”. Benjamin Franklin.

    • SOCIALISIM-MUSTGO!

      You are the one who deserves no respect nelson ,You have a right not to believe that you don’t respect just like the framers and mystics who gave that right to you whom you have no respect for……….

      When they painted the mural of George Washington being lifted into saintly hood on the capitol bldg ceiling were they trying to torture any atheists and prevent them from coming there ? and when John Adams told an inquirer that we had been given a moral Republic and that it was wholly insufficient for any other society…..
      “I am surprised at the suddenness as well as the greatness of this revolution… It is the will of Heaven that the two countries should be sundered forever. It may be the will of Heaven that America shall suffer calamities still more wasting, and distresses yet more dreadful. If this is to be the case it will have this good effect at least. It will inspire us with many virtues which we have not, and correct many errors, follies, and vices which threaten to disturb, dishonor, and destroy us. The furnace of affliction produces refinement in states as well as individuals. And the new Governments we are assuming in every part will require a purification from our vices, and an augmentation of our virtues, or they will be no blessings. The people will have unbounded power, and the people are extremely addicted to corruption and venality, as well as the great. But I must submit all my hopes and fears to an overruling Providence, in which, unfashionable as the faith may be, I firmly believe.”
      So take your medicine. It’s time a-theists stop thinking they are superior in knowledge to the framers and show some respect for them and the blessings they bestowed upon us which they believed came from the heavens! have you no respect for those who gave you the right not to believe also?

    • Josiah Victor Hoffman

      And justr how much do you know about the Rosearians (Order of the Rose)? This was Benjamin Franklins belief structure…..Humanism…pure Humanism….now do you understand his statement?

  • Marty

    I regret that the length of “reply” commentary seems to have been exceeded and I can no longer reply by simply hitting the “reply” button. In response to Socialism-must-go’s two replies, let me say that 1) I actually DID vote for Gary Johnson and afterwards attended his election night party in Albuquerque. That was my third time meeting the gentleman; and 2) I apologize to all readers for a couple of my posts here which were less than intellectually motivated. I regret that I responded in-kind and will guard closely my future replies.

  • [email protected]

    Hang the traitor.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Abinico-Warez/100002657822528 Abinico Warez

    Dan Smith is a Satanist. Only a Satanist would be so offended by a Christian prayer. I am a pagan; and though to me Jesus is just another Holy Man, I have no problem “enduring” Christian prayers, or the prayers of any other religion. Dan, I wold look for a good exorcist.